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Questions Index

Date

Question / Comment

 

 

10/04/2005

Daumier and Corot.

12/03/2005

Trying to identify a print.

9/5/2005

Questions about refused prints

9/5/2005

Collectors/Dealers wanted in Boston/Rhode Island area

7/28/2005

Daumier and Meynial

4/25/2005

Daumier and Seymour

7/16/2004

Van Gogh's "The Drinkers" (after Daumier).

6/17/2004

Info on LA CARICATURE PROVISOIRE

6/17/2004

Société de Vérification, once again

6/17/2004

A gillotage from my local thriftstore

5/27/2004

What was the normal procedure for printing the caption text on lithographs?

4/01/2004

Looking for a courtroom print with a skeleton

12/22/2003

Remembering a print with a boy picking his nose

12/11/2003

Researching a Daumier litho, Delteil 3172

12/16/2003

Lithographs from a yard sale. Imitations?

11/21/2003

Looking for information on "Le Rapin"

11/19/2003

Lawyers prints. Value?

11/03/2003

Société de Vérification New York and Paris

10/20/2003

Info on oil painting: The three lawyers.

9/26/2003

Colored lithograph "Croquis d'expressions"

9/16/2003

Information on the London Congress drawing by Daumier

9/16/2003

Oil on Canvas "Jugglers at Rest"

9/07/2003

original drawing of a man looking into mirror

8/19/2003

Are Daumier's prints sometimes not signed?

8/12/2003

"Ami de personne" an imitation?

 

 

 

 




 

 

Daumier and Corot

 

QUESTION:

 

Oct. 4, 2005

 

Dear Daumier Site: Did M. Daumier draw or paint a portrait of Corot, as I've

been told? If so, please tell me what the title is & if it is available for

viewing online.

 

Thank you very much

 

Barry

 

 

Oct. 4, 2005

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

Hello Barry

 

thank you for your interest in Daumier.

We are not aware of a painting by Daumier depiting Corot. There are however two drawings, which you might be able to consult at your local library in the K.E.Maison catalogue.

1) Portrait presumé de Corot, now in the Segonzac collection, Paris registered in Maison vol. II nr 80

2) Le liseur, Corot dessinant à Ville d’Avray, Maison vol II. Nr.361, now at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. This drawing you should easily find on the internet.

 

Hope this helps you in your research

 

best regards

Dieter Noack

 

 

Back to Index



Trying to identify a print.

December 2, 2005

 

QUESTION:

 

Hello,

 

My mother has recently started collecting antiques and she found what looks like a

Daumier newspaper print at a local auction. I'm the computer guy, so I get the hard

part... I'd never heard of Daumier but I love his work and am really intrigued

because I cannot find this particular image anywhere on the web. It's called

Prodigieux effet produit sur la masse au salon de 1841. The top also says SALON DE

1841. The picture is 3 people: a fat man looking at a mirror with one eye closed,

a thin guy yawning, and a 3rd person not doing much of anything. Although framed,

you can tell there's French writing on the reverse side that appears stamped on

since the letters bulge towards the front side. Can anyone be so kind as to tell

me anything about this work? Has it been seen before, is it considered a print or

lithograph or a reprint, or any other tips?

 

Thank you very much,

Mike

 

Dec. 3, 2005

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

Dear Mike,

 

I suggest you look into the Daumier Register, where all the 4’000 Daumier prints are catalogued. Go to www.daumier-register.org where you have to register with your email address and a password of your choice. In order to find details about your mother’s print you can either search by text (Prodigieux effet produit…. ) or by series (Salon de 1841) or by publication and year (if you can identify the name of it on the reverse side) and you will get to the print with the exact description and photograph.

 

If it is not in the Daumier Register, it might be a Daumier wood engraving. We are still in the process of cataloguing this category. You can in that case send us a jpg (not bigger than 50KB!) and we will try to find out what it is.

 

Good luck,

 

Lilian

 

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Questions about refused prints

September 4, 2005

 

QUESTION:

 

Could I ask you if you might be able to share

with me or direct me to information of what prints by Daumier were initially

refused authorization for publication ? This would include any which were

then modified in order to receive authorization.

 

The whole question, as I understand it, might be separately considered from

prints which were the subject of prosecution *after* being authorized -- not

to mention any which were published *without* authorization.

 

Is there any compilation of these questions dealing with his entire career ?

I recall, for example, a proof from the 1850's at the National Gallery in

Ottawa, which showed a modification of the title which was instructed by the

censor. Presumably, this sort of thing was happening throughout his career,

and I would like to know if the various instances have ever been

assembled.

 

 

Sept. 5, 2005

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

it was indeed a coincidence that you brought up this topic now. We had been asked this question repeatedly in the past and had started to prepare a short list of prints, which we discovered during our research for the Daumier-Register. Unfortunately this small list quite certainly is not complete, since over the years much of these rare prints were lost or destroyed. Below you will find the Daumier-Register numbers (DR number)

 

When going to the Daumier-Register www.daumier-register.org

you only need to punch in the DR numbers and you will be guided to the information about some 11 prints we found which were initially refused by the censor. I hope this will help you in your own research.

DR nrs: 720, 1011, 1013, 1747, 2446, 2734, 3484, 3590, 3605, 3658, 3936.

 

Back to Index



 

Collectors/Dealers wanted in Boston/Rhode Island area

September 4, 2005

 

QUESTION:

 

Dear Daumier Collectors~

 

I am seeking information about two lithographs (on newsprint) of Daumier's that I

purchased at a rural auction near my home. One is the "L'enlevement d'Helene," No. 13

from the series Histoire Ancienne; the other is "Jeunesse d'Alcibiade," No. 19.

My highschool French is not up to the task

of translation, but both drawings have text underneath. They are a little discolored

but otherwise intact.

 

My husband suggested I look the up on the Web, and to my surprise, they seem to be

originals, that is, on the back side of the drawings is the newspaper print of "Le

Charivari" dated 1842.

 

In looking them up, I noticed that each of the lithographs is housed in a museum. I

suppose there are many copies still in existence, but I'm wondering if my two copies

are valuable. Could you please advise me what I should do to further check this

out? Are there, to your knowledge, any Daumier collectors/dealers in my region

(Boston and south Massachusetts near Rhode Island)?

 

Thank you for any guidance you may offer.

 

Joyce Walsh

thewriteway1@comcast.net

 

 

Sept. 5, 2005

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello joyce

 

thanks for your mail and congratulations that you own two daumier prints.

it seems that you found info about each print under

www.daumier-register.org?

as far as the prices are concerned, they retail between 50-150$ each,

depending whether they are in good condition.

i think in boston there are several dealers handling daumier, and of

course the boston public library as well as the boston museum have

outstanding collections.

there are several collectors in your area, however for reasons of

"discretion" we make it a policy not to convey their addresses. i hope you

understand. I am publishing this letter in the “discussion group”. maybe the one or other collector wishes to contact you

directly.

 

 

Back to Index



Daumier and Meynial

July 28, 2005

 

QUESTION:

 

I have a wood engraving by Meynial. I would like to know more about it.

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

As most Daumier collectors know, Daumier produced some 4000 lithographs and approximately 1000 wood engravings. The latter appeared mainly in newspapers such as Le Charivari, Le Monde Illustré and many others, as well as in book publications. Unknown to many, the editor and publisher Jules Meynial succeeded in purchasing some 34 original wood blocks. In 1920, well after the death of Daumier, he published with the help of the printer F.L. Schmied an album containing several folders. They displayed 34 large wood engravings which had previously appeared in Le Monde Illustré. He added 2 more wood engravings after watercolors by Daumier: the “Fauteuils d’Orchestre”, was originally presented in 1878 at the Galerie Durand-Ruel exhibition and the engraving was done by Lepère; “Les Amateurs d’Estampes” which is part of the Louvre collection, was engraved by Schmied. The only print missing in the Meynial collection which had previously appeared in “Le Monde Illustré” was “affreux macadam” (Bouvy 933).

 

In total 100 albums were produced, of which 25 numbered 1/25 to 25/25 on China paper (chine appliqué) and 75 numbered 1/75 to 75/75 on Japan paper. The China paper edition was distributed to collectors at random, while the 75 Japan paper edition was offered to various museums and some few private collectors.

 

The prints are before any text (avant la lettre) and the print quality is excellent. These prints can be considered as being quite rare and will be rather difficult to find on the market. After the printing process, the wood blocks were “whitened” in order curtail any future reprints. As one will note in the photographs below, the woodblocks were supplied (and numbered) by Kieszling, a company with offices in 16, rue Charlemagne in Paris (ref. Remi Blachon, 2005) supplier of artists’ woodblocks.

 

For comparison we are showing here the following four photographs of DR 6033/EB 954:

 

 

Front of the original whitened wood block (from a Swiss private collection)

 

 

Verso of the same woodblock, showing the stamps of “Le Monde Illustré”, Kieszling and an export stamp of the Paris customs office

 

 

Print as it appeared in "Le Monde Illustré"

 

 

Print as published in the Meynial edition

.

 

 

Back to Index



 

 

Daumier and Seymour

April 24, 2005

 

QUESTION:

 

I would like to find out whether Robert Seymour and Daumier ever met and

also whether their works influenced each other. I seem to remember reading

somewhere (but I cannot find the reference) that Daumier was influenced by a

Seymour cartoon in which a spider's web grew on the arm of a fisherman by a

riverbank. I also seem to remember reading that Daumier met the British

artist George Cruikshank - and if Daumier did indeed travel to England to

meet Cruikshank, it is entirely possible that he met Seymour on the same

trip.

 

Any references you could give me to books or articles which illuminate the

connection between Seymour, Daumier and Cruikshank would be greatly

appreciated.

 

Many thanks

 

Stephen

 

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

Hello Stephen,

 

Thank you for your interest in Daumier. We are not aware that Daumier ever met Cruikshank or Seymour, and we have not found any reference in the bibliography. Since Daumier never left France it may be that Seymour had seen Daumier in Paris, but we have no information about such a meeting.

 

Daumier was of course fully aware of Seymour’s work, as can best be shown by the influence which Seymour’s caricature “France Receiving the Ordinances” published in 1830 had on Daumier’s famous “Dernier Conseil des ex-Ministres” (LD 1746), which appeared in 1848 in the Charivari. For details see J. Döring : Caricature anglaise et caricature française aux alentours de 1830”.

 

Daumier also produced some feather lithographs in the style of Seymour, of which you find some background information below:

 

LA CHASSE (Hunting) is a series of 28 lithograps, which appeared in two different periods: 16 prints were published between September 1836 and April 1837 in the Charivari. 12 prints were published between September 1843 and January 1844 in the Charivari, of which plate numbers 2, 4 and 5 had already previously appeared in La Caricature (2nd series).

 

ABOUT THIS SERIES. The prints of this series were used in various different publications. Once they were published under the title "LA CHASSE", another time, in 1840 under "CHASSE ET PÊCHE". Some copies were added to the album "CHAOS" and "LA NOUVELLE LANTERNE MAGIQUE".

 

Album LE CHAOS – CARICATURE DE TOUT LE MONDE, chez Aubert, circa 1840, in-4 oblong, cartonnage papier glacé vert de l'éditeur, avec dessins lithographiés sur le 1er plat.

Some of the prints show 32 feather lithographs reduced in size of which 16 are by Daumier. They show various topics, mainly hunting and fishing scenes and appeared in black and white. The full size lithographs are DR 302-317. Some of the prints with the reduced feather lithographs show the title: LE CAHOS (sic) – CARICATURE DE TOUT LE MONDE. It is very rare to find a complete album nowadays.

 

DR 302 for example shows a man advising a soldier to be careful with his rifle.

The print and all the others that followed should be seen as liberal "copies" of hunting scenes, which had been published by the British caricaturist Robert Seymour (1798-1836). Although these lithographs by Daumier are considered of average quality, their success with the public lead to repeated editions in 1840 and 1845.

 

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Van Gogh's "The Drinkers" (after Daumier).

July 16, 2004

 

QUESTION:

 

Good Evening:

I was recently at the Chicago Art Institute and saw an oil on canvas by Van Gogh titled "The Drinkers (after Daumier). What I was trying to find out is which painting, or caricature of Daumier's Van Gogh was liking his painting to? Do you have any idea? I'm trying to gather this information for my humanities class.

 

Thank You,

Brenda

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello Brenda

 

you are quite correct. daumier’s wood engraving was published in the journal “monde illustré” on 25. oct 1862 under the title: physiologie du buveur, les quatre ages ( work catalogue bouvy n° 935). have a look at the van gogh web site: www.vangoghgallery.com which tells you everything you want to know about this artist.

 

remember that van gogh had asked his brother to send over lithographs and wood cuts by Daumier. this is how the painting you saw, most likely was done.

best regards

 

dieter noack

 

 

 

Vincent van Gogh: The Drinkers. Oil painting

Courtesy of www.vangoghgallery.com

 

 

 

Honoré Daumier: Les quatre ages. Woodcut

 

 

 

The painting is with the Art Institute of Chicago, the original wood block is at the Museum of Art in Boston.

 

 

P.S.

There are two letters from Vincent van Gogh to his brother Theo dealing with this painting:

 

1.

"Donc, c’est pour dire que je n’hésite pas à faire des copies.... Ainsi, ce que je médite de faire en peinture, c’est "Les Buveurs" de Daumier"

 

(Van Gogh-Lettre à Théo, Janvier 1890 N° 623 F.)

 

2.

"J’ai essayé de copier Daumier’s Buveurs….c’est très difficile."

 

(Lettre à Théo du 12. Février 1890- N° 626)

 

 

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Info on LA CARICATURE PROVISOIRE

June 14, 2004

 

QUESTION:

 

Hello,

 

I am trying to find out as much information as possible regarding original La

Caricature Provisoire Newspapers printed between November 1838 and June 1839. I own

the introductory paper that reads:

 

9.Xbre.1838 La Caricature Provisoire

Grrrandissime

Bureau D'Arbonnement a la Caricature provisiore, et

Magasin D'etrennes D'artistes... pour les grands enfans

 

and also volume numbers 4,7,10,12,13,14,16,19,20,21,22,23,25,28,30,31,32,33,35 ,

each with the royal timbre stamped seal.

 

Any history about these papers, the artists which they highlight including Daumier,

Gavarni, Granville, Sorrieu, Travies, and their value and rarity would be greatly

appreciated. How difficult would it be to acquire the missing volumes to complete

the collection?

 

Thank you very much,

 

Marshall

 

June 17, 2004

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello marshall

 

it seems you have quite an interesting projection concerning the “Caricature Provisoire”. let me try to answer some of your questions:

 

1)

Caricature Provisoire, also called La Caricature second publication. was founded by Philipon and first appeared on November 1st 1838. the title of the paper was changed later on into:”La Caricature, revue morale, judiciaire, littéraire, artistique, fashionable et scènique”. This last title was then changed again: “morale” was eliminated and became: “ La Caricature, revue satirique des modes, des théatres, de la musique, des tribunaux et de la literature.

 

2)

the last edition appeared on december 31, 1843. in the entire publication, one can find 133 lithographs by Daumier and of cause by the artists you mentioned in your mail.

 

3)

background information about Traviès, Grandville etc you can find on our web site and there is numerous additional information available on the internet.

 

4)

the value for the paper is represented by the lithographs in it. Daumiers will fetch more on the market than Grandville etc. in the end the condition of each print if of importance. the text in the paper may be of historical interest but carries little commercial value yet.

 

5)

to find complete sets of the paper is not easy. like in the case of the charivari, these papers were taken apart and the lithographs sold separately. We could help you find the Daumiers which appeared in this paper, if you are interested. but to find the complete sets between 1838 and 1843 will be difficult.

 

Hope to have been of help,

 

Dieter

 

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Société de Vérification, once again

June 14, 2004

 

QUESTION:

 

Hi,

I am trying to find info on the same thing another person asked about- the society

de verificaiton de la nouvelle gravure- I have two woodcut/engravings with this

certificate on the back one is by Georges Rouault and one is by Andre Derain what

puzzels me is that one of them have a raised notary type seal and the other one

doesn't. In the others that you have seen have they had such seals on them? Also

am I to understand that anytime I see this certification that the piece is not worth

anything because it is not original or part of an edition. I am new to learning

about collecting art any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Terri

 

June 17, 2004

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

Hello Terri,

 

thanks for your mail. Unfortunately I haven’t seen any prints other than the ones for Daumier certified by the Société de Vérification. Since all the ones I have seen on Daumier are fake, I would assume that the same holds for other artists such as Rouault or Derain.

 

Sorry that I can’t give you any better news. I would also suggest that you read the section on our website about how to collect art, which explains quite explicitly what to look for. In case you are interested in Daumier, you can always contact us and we will be happy to help. Maybe you also would like to have a look at the offers of www.daumiergallery.com . They offer only original prints.

 

Best regards

Dieter

 

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A gillotage from my local thriftstore

June 15, 2004

 

QUESTION:

 

I found a Daumier print in my local thrift store in Roslindale. According to

my research it is a gillotype. The label on the back says The Old Print and

Frame Shop, 42 Bromfield St. , Boston. I don't think the shop exists anymore.

 

I took it out of its frame to ascertain that it is a real print, and since

the zinc plate impression is there, I think it is. But I am not an expert, of

course. It is not as gorgeous as a lithograph, but is still very appealing in

spite of the gritty grays.

 

Unfortunately, it was heat pressed or something like that on some sort of

cardboard which I am sure would not have been acid free. It looks very good

though, absolutely charming, and is of two lawyers having a great time with each other, in the foreground, with a jury behind them in the background. The plate size is approximately 7 and 7/8 by 10 and 1/4.

 

My questions are, before I bother with an appraisal, what should I do to

preserve it (it is hanging in a dim place, out of the light), and, does a

gillotype have any value given that it is not a first impression from the actual

lithograph stone? I paid $10.00 for it framed so I think I did quite well even if

it is not first quality or authentic. But it sure looks authentic.

 

Thanks for any help with my questions.

Janice

 

June 17, 2004

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

Dear Janice,

 

thank you for your e-mail conc. Daumier. A gillotage is not as valuable as an original lithograph, as you correctly assumed. Since you paid $ 10 for it you surely made a good deal. Any cleaning of the print would be beyond its value and I simply would suggest that you hang it in a place where no direct sunlight or spotlight gets to it.

 

Whether it is an original gillotage or a reprint I can only tell you if you would send me a digital photograph. To tell you whether it’s an original or a reprint will cost you nothing.

 

Good luck,

 

Dieter

 

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What was the normal procedure for printing the caption text on lithographs?

May 26, 2004

 

QUESTION:

 

I have a question that has perplexed me for a while. How did the Maison Aubert printers print the caption text on the full-page lithographs? Our lithographic stone which was from the Souvenirs d'artistes series has the text somehow printed in reverse on the stone. How is this done? Was this the normal procedure for the journals as well? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

C.

 

May 27, 2004

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello C,

as you know, even before lithography and senefelder there were those strange people who were able to write in mirror image style. maybe they were authistic? surely something to look at. I am quite sure that this system was not used during daumier’s time extensively. most likely all these people had ended up in dr pinel’s clinic anyhow…. who knows.

 

unfortunately there is no written record in any of the literature I have available about this “minor” detail you are asking for. however , since nobody talks about it, I must assume, they used the most simple trick of the period: transfer lithograph to add the text. just look at the text of the caricaturana series… I cannot image anybody doing this as a mirror image.

 

this means some body used fatty paper with glue and gum and did, what today is called a transfer lithograph. he engraved his text on the paper, transferred it to the stone, where it showed a mirror image and then the stone printed the correct image in the newspaper.

 

hope this helps you further.

 

 

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Looking for a courtroom print with a skeleton

April 1, 2004

QUESTION:

 

I took an art history class a while ago and I remember a daumier print that I loved but I can't remember the name of it or find it anywhere. It was a courtroom scene that had a skeleton pointing menacingly at lawyers sitting across from him. any ideas?

Matt

 

April 1, 2004

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello matt

 

thanks for your interst in daumier. i am not aware of the combination lawyer and skeleton. there exists however a drawing called "the sick and death" depicting a sick man on a bed, a doctor watching and the skeleton, representing death, watching the two. it is nr 402 in the maison catalogue.

 

there does exist another drawing, nr 400 and 401, showing two doctors (with their hats one might easily take them for lawyers) and death behind them, titled "les médecins et la mort". hope this helps you. let me know if you need anything else.

 

best regards

dieter noack

 

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Remembering a print with a boy picking his nose

December 22, 2003

QUESTION:

 

I am trying to find out more about a print that my grandparents had, which I believe was a Daumier. It was lost either through moving, or after their death. I don't have a vivid recollection of the picture; I only remember it contained a young boy picking his nose. From this information, is anybody able to tell me if it could be a Daumier, what the title might be, and if this print (original or duplicate) is available anywhere?

 

December 26, 2003

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello richard

 

you are most likely thinking of one of two prints showing two abosultely convincing nosepickers: l.d. 970 and ld 580. both are difficult to find and as you know, quite charming.

 

Below some places where you can see l.d. 580:

 

Collection identification

 

The Armand Hammer Daumier and Contemporaries Collection. UCLA Hammer Museum, Los Angeles, CA

Fogg Art Museum, Harvard University Art Museums, Cambridge, MA

Museum OSKAR REINHART am Stadtgarten, Winterthur, Switzerland

S.LONGSTREET Collection,USA

NEW YORK, Metropolitan Museum of Art, NEW YORK, NY

BRANDEIS University Libraries - TRUSTMAN Collection

NOACK Collection, Ascona, Switzerland

THE NEW YORK Public Library

Bibliothèques Nationales de France, Cabinet des Estampes, Paris, France

BOSTON, Museum of Fine Arts, BOSTON, MA

Carnegie Museum of Art, Pittsburgh

University of Iowa Museum of Art

Kunstsammlung Chemnitz, Germany

RAMUS Collection, USA

Milwaukee Art Museum

 

below some places where you can see L.D. 970

 

Collection identification:

 

The Armand Hammer Daumier and Contemporaries Collection. UCLA Hammer Museum, Los Angeles, CA

Fogg Art Museum, Harvard University Art Museums, Cambridge, MA

Museum OSKAR REINHART am Stadtgarten, Winterthur, Switzerland

S.LONGSTREET Collection, USA

The Cleveland Museum of Art

NOACK Collection, Ascona, Switzerland

NOACK Collection, Ascona, Switzerland

BRANDEIS University Libraries - TRUSTMAN Collection

THE NEW YORK Public Library

Bibliothèques Nationales de France, Cabinet des Estampes, Paris, France

TOBU Museum of Art, Tokyo, Japan

BOSTON, Museum of Fine Arts, BOSTON, MA

RAMUS Collection, USA

Sommerpalais Greiz, Germany

 

please contact me for any further questions

best regards

 

dieter noack

 

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Researching a Daumier litho, Delteil 3172

December 11, 2003

QUESTION:

 

I am researching a Daumier litho, Delteil 3172. Ours is the 3rd state which appeared in the album: "Ces Bons Autrichiens" Do you have any info about the album and when it was published?

phyllis

 

December 11, 2003

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

dear Phyllis

l.d. 3172 appeared on may 11,1859 in the charivari as a newsprint under the series “actualités”. as you know, an album had been produced containing prints “sur blanc”, which contained 30 lithographs, of which 23 are from Daumier. these prints were published in the charivari between February and july 1859. the album appeared sometime in the same year. All the prints in the album are referring to the relatively short war between italy and austria, which resulted in the end in the reunification of italy under the house of savoy. An armistice had been signed on July 10, 1859

 

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Lithographs from a yard sale. Imitations?

December 16, 2003

 

QUESTION:

 

Hello, I have recently found several ,I believe lithographs in a yard sale, but after reading your site I believe them to be immitations, since they are numbered in pencil (235/500) etc. My question is , are they worth any value if they are not the real thing? JD

 

December 17, 2003

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello jd

unfortunately you are right assuming that the prints you found are reprints. they are still being offered along the seine in paris at around 5$ a piece. if they were original lithographs showing e.g. lawyers, they would be worth between 3-5000 $.

sorry

best regards

dieter noack

daumier register

 

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Looking for information on "Le Rapin"

November 21, 2003

 

QUESTION:

 

In approx. 1973,I purchased an illustration entitled "Le Rapin" in San Francisco from the R.E. Lewis, Inc. gallery. At the top is printed "Types" and the page number is 17. I seem to have lost any other information I might have received at the time of purchase.

 

Below the title of the caricature is a lengthy commentary about him ("the Artist") in French, of course, which I have never completely translated. I have no doubt of the authenticity of this print. Am interested in selling it and would like to get some idea of current market value.

 

Thank you.

Ann

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

November 21, 2003

 

before we are able to give you some details, we need the following info, unless you can email us a digital jpg photograph:

french text below the print ( first 10 words are enough) and whether the print is from a newspaper or on white paper without text au verso.

if it is on white paper-do you see stitches on the left hand margin, in which case the print has been taken from an album, or do you have a full margin?

regards

dieter noack

 

REPLY

The text reads: "Meprise la foule qui ait de sais cheveaux graisseux de sa barbe salo, de ses ongles bleu, de sa chemise noire....", and the description continues for another three lines of text, in script "font", across the bottom of the picture. It is definitely on newsprint paper and is definitely a scathing description of "the artist" as a Type!

Thank you for your help!

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello ann

 

here now the information about your print:

L.D. 269

most likely iii/iii state (third state of three, if the one word in the text reads "wateau" . if it reads "nateau" it can be considered rare.

Appeared on July 3, 1836 in the Charivari

French text: Le Rapin.

Méprise la foule qui rit de ses cheveux graisseux, de sa barbe sale, de ses ongles bleus, de sa chemise noire, de ses habits décolorés et de ses airs de génie: il méprise Raphaël ou Wateau, suivant la mode parmi les rapins de son temps; il méprise la fortune qu'il ne peut atteindre et l'instruction après laquelle il méprise de courir, il méprise tout et croit que l'univers le regarde.... A trente ans, vous le trouvez Professeur de dessin au collège de Brive-la-Gaillarde.

 

English translation

The art student.

He despises the crowd which laughs at his greasy hair, at his dirty beard, at his blue fingernails, his black shirt, at his discoloured clothes and at his allure of genius. He scorns Raphael or Watteau, following the fashion of the art students of his time. He despises the fortune which he will never attain and the lessons which he scorns to take. He despises everything and believes that the world is looking at him. At thirty you will see him as a drawing teacher at the Brive-la-Gaillarde highschool.

 

Can be seen in following collections:

BRANDEIS University Libraries - TRUSTMAN Collection

The Armand Hammer Daumier and Contemporaries Collection. UCLA Hammer Museum, Los Angeles, CA

S.LONGSTREET Collection, USA

Bibliothèques Nationales de France, Cabinet des Estampes, Paris, France

GASTON-DREYFUS Collection

 

Background:

Although this print is plate nr. 17 of the series "Types Français" it carries only the name "Types" as name of the series.On September 23, 1835 the Charivari wrote about the Series "Types Français" the following introduction: Daumier intends to to show in this series the typical appearance and costumes of various classes which make up our society. It will appear together with the drawings of Grandville and his Gallery of Grotesque Parisians as well as the Stupid Parisians by Bourdet.

 

Value: in 2002 600 $ were paid in France for a sur blanc coloured. iii/iii

if from the Charivari depending on condition and if iii/iii the value would be around 50$ to max. 100$

 

if you need any further info, please don't hesitate to contact me.

 

dieter noack

 

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Lawyers prints. Value?

November 19, 2003

 

QUESTION:

 

The internet is amazing! I am selling some items from our law firm and have been told to look into the value of these 3 prints before I give them away. I have been dragging them around for 20 years! Your site if fantastic! Before, about 3 hours ago, I did not even know Daumier existed. Shows how much I pay attention. How fun! Good job! My prints are numbered 969, 1326 - this one has a full signature, not just initials, and it is 3 men one in robes talking about a piece of paper. Do they have names, can I find out more about them. I always liked these prints -- I think I'm gonna keep them. Thanks.

Linda

 

November 20, 2003

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello linda

 

thank you for your cheerful remarks concerning the web site... i am glad you enjoyed it and that you find daumier interesting and entertaining.

the only reliable way to find out whether your three lawyer prints are original lithographs or reprints is that you send us digital photographs in jpg format via the internet. if they are fakes or reprints, we will not charge you anything. if they are originals we will charge you 25$ each (donation for the restoration of daumier's grave), really a nominal amount since the prints might be very valuable. we would also supply you with detailed background information about each print.

so, let us start with the photos and then we'll see..

 

best regards

 

dieter

daumier register

p.s.

you also might want to look at the web site section fakes and imitations.

 

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Société de Vérification New York and Paris?

November 3, 2003

 

QUESTION:

 

Can anyone tell me about the Société de Vérification de la Nouvelle Gravure Internationale of New York and Paris.

 

I have a signed Diego Rivera # 323 of 325 and am trying to research it.

 

You are the only website that came up under this name.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Cathy

 

antiqlvr2@aol.com

 

 

November 4, 2003

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

dear cathy

 

we have been asked this question before by other collectors. the company seems to have had an office once on madison avenue in new york, but does not seem to exist anymore. every time prints with this "certification" have been shown to us, they were in all cases reprints and not original lithographs. so the old rule applies again: "buyer beware".

 

dieter noack

daumier register

 

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Info on oil painting: The three lawyers.

October 3, 2003

 

QUESTION:

 

Hello,

I am trying to find information on an oil on canvas painting by Daumier titled "The Three Lawyers". Can you help me?

I have a specific poster of it but absolutely no information. I am assuming, looking at it, that it is oil on canvas rather than a lithograph. It has three lawyers in black robes standing next to a column or wall where the light is. Otherwise the picture is very dark. The lawyer on the right is taller and has an arrogant pose. He is in profile with a long nose. He is carrying a package of papers (white with red bank around it). The middle lawyer is facing the viewer, with a small smile . The lawyer on the right is shorter and facing away from the viewer, toward the other two lawyers. He is carrying a book(?) in his hand.

 

I do not even have a date for this painting.

 

Any help you are able to give me would be greatly appreciated.

Joan

 

October 4, 2003

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

hello joan

 

i think you might have a poster of daumier's "Trois Avocats Causant"

this is a panel 40.6x33 cm dating to 1855-57

in 1920 it was part of the phillips collection in washington dc

the originals owners were geoffroy-dechaume, h. rouart (blumenthal), (knoedler) and finally duncan phillips

 

 

the painting was exhibited in:

paris 1888

paris 1889

london 1923

moma, n.y. 1930

paris 1934

boston 1935

on loan in san francisco 1940

london 1961

 

the painting is referenced in the publications of alexandre 1912,sales catalogue rouart 1912, international studio 1913, klossowski and escholier 1930,fuchs,lassaigne, fleischmann, adhémar, ziller, besson etc. also in the k.e. maison catalogue raisonneé under I-91, page 100 and plate 113.

 

according to maison there exists a well preserved water colour in the williamstown art institute, which repeats the same subject and is essentially identical to the painting. the quality of the drawing however seems to be notably higher. an imitation of the painting was shown in london barbizon house in 1923 under nr 16.

 

i hope this background information will be of help.

 

best regards

dieter noack

daumier register

 

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Colored lithograph "Croquis d'expressions"

September 26, 2003

 

QUESTION:

 

Hello, and thank you for having such an informative site about this artist. I have an 1838 hand colored lithograph on sur blanc paper from the croquis d'expression , I think it is #2 from the series ( a man holding a crying baby). I am trying to understand how many of these were printed. In your glossary of printing techniques section , under the heading "Printing,paper qualities" it states that aprox 50 sur blanc prints were made. Does this # apply to the hand colored sur blanc, or just black and white? Since this was printed during the time period of "extreem repression" of the press (1835-1848) do you know anything about the story behind the scene in this print. Any information would be apreciated Thank you,Mark Klocko

 

September 27, 2003

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

Dear Mark,

Not having seen the print in your possession, I think it will most likely be from the series “Croquis d’Expressions” nr 2.

Date: Feb.6, 1838.

The series "Croquis d'Expressions" contained 100 lithographs, of which numbers 1 to 53 were by Daumier and 54 to 100 by PLATTEL and PLATIER. They were published in the CHARIVARI from January 1,1838 to April 7,1839. The prints numbered 12, 27, 30, 34, 35 had previously been published in LA CARICATURE.

 

It seems that you have a sur blanc print, which was hand coloured. We would need to see it or have a high resolution photograph of it in order to determine whether it was coloured during the period or later. Chances are that this print is from an album (the left hand margin would show book binding marks) which was printed and coloured separately during the period and sold to collectors. Unfortunately today there is no way of knowing how many of these albums have been printed. Some of them were very popular while others were sold at a discount.

 

If however you have a full size print, not taken from an album, chances are that this is one of the 50 odd prints mentioned in the web site which has been especially coloured and sold as a single sheet.

 

There is no story behind this print…. Daumier simply was not able during press censorship to draw politically motivated prints. The entire period we are looking at was simply filled with “everyday-life” caricatures, which had no political meaning.

 

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Information on the London Congress drawing by Daumier

September 16, 2003

 

QUESTION:

 

I am looking for information on the London Congress drawing by Daumier, a picture which is of a prostrate Poland lying at the feet of the great powers, following the unsuccessful rebellion in 1830. Thanks for your help. and any specific details you might be able to give me regarding this work. I assume the animals are to represent political figures of the day, but I haven’t found much formal or content analysis of the work. I hope you can help.

 

Brian

 

ANSWER FROM THE DAUMIER ORGANISATION:

 

dear brian

 

i think i found the information you were looking for. please let me know, if this is acceptable.

 

Conférence de Londres

 

coloured lithograph

caricatures politiques nr 24

Feb.9, 1832

298 x 222 mm

ld 35

hd 218

monogram: h.D.

editor: Chez Aubert, Éd. du Journal la Caricature, Au Magasin, Galerie Véro-Dodat.

printer : Lith. de Delaporte.

states : 3

collections which own this print:

 

The Armand Hammer Daumier and Contemporaries Collection. UCLA Hammer Museum, Los Angeles, CA

BRANDEIS University Libraries - TRUSTMAN Collection

Bibliothèques Nationales de France, Cabinet des Estampes, Paris, France

TOBU Museum of Art, Tokyo, Japan

RAMUS Collection, USA

 

 

Background information :

 

This lithograph alludes to the 1832 conference in London, convened to restrict the freedom of Poland. The woman representing Poland is wounded, lying on the floor. Animals representing the other European countries are arguing about Poland.

 

It is referring to the " Polish Independence". The conference took place in London in 1831/32and was headed by TALLEYRAND (at that time 78 years old) who was acting as French ambassador under the Government of Casimir PÉRIER. At this conference the borders between Belgium,Luxemburg and Holland were redrawn.The Prussian is shown here as a horse, the Russian as a bear, the Austrian as a monkey, the English as a fox, the French as a hare, the Belgian as a turkey, and Holland as a dog.

 

After a brief resistance during the time of Napoleonic rule Poland had risen in insurrection in 1830, only to be invaded and punished by Tsar Nicolas of Russia. He threatened to blow up the entire city of Warsaw in case of resistance. At the end of 1830, Poland gave up and fell silent. The Polish revolution was only one of the legacies of the Vienna Congress. Polish freedom fighters attracted French Republican enthusiasm. Chopin's arrival in Paris had an additional effect. Sympathy peeked when news arrived in Paris that the Poles had driven the Russians out of Warsaw. The Republicans insisted than Louis-Philippe should send aid to Poland.

 

Lafayette, then head of the National Guard, supported the Polish cause and criticized the King for failing to intervene in Poland.

 

The animals representing various countries are typical for Grandville and the idea was used by Daumier for this print.

 

GRANDVILLE, Jean Ignace Isidore GERARD, called (1803-1847) was a well-known artist of paintings, watercolors, drawings, and caricatures. He worked for CARICATURE, CHARIVARI, MAGASIN PITTORESQUE and other publications. He exerted a strong initial influence on Daumier’s artistic career. The print shown here obviously shows direct similarities to Grandville's drawings.

 

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Oil on Canvas "Jugglers at Rest"

September 16, 2003

 

COMMENT:

 

I have an Oil on Canvas 21 1/4 x 26 titled "Jugglers at Rest" signed by h Daumier from the Norton Simon Collection framed by The Thompson Gallery. What info can you give me on this? I have 2 email addresses - the 2nd is rmb914@cox.net. Thanks!

 

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Original drawing of a man looking into mirror.

September 7, 2003

 

COMMENT:

 

I have an original drawing of a man looking into mirror; underneath is written in pencil "Dupelet essayant son sourire de Decembre" and it has the H.D. initials, also in pencil. The paper has been authenticated as from the 19th Century, but I don't know if it is an original Daumier or a copy. How could I find out? Do you know what the title/inscription might mean?

Thank you.

John

 

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August 19, 2003

 

COMMENT:

 

Hello-I have found your site on Daumier extremely helpful and very well done!! I cannot wait for the Daumier Register to be ready.

I was wondering if you could answer one brief question about Daumier's prints? I have one from "Le Charivari" where everything looks correct (style is correct, subject is correct, paper is old, and there are printed articles on the reverse side), but I cannot find his signature or initials anywhere in the print! My question is: Are Daumier's prints sometimes not signed or did he always sign them in some way?

Thanks-Pat

 

August 20, 2003

 

REPLY:

 

hello pat

 

thanks for your remarks conc our new daumier web site. i am glad it is helpful to you. to answer your question:

yes, daumier signed about 75% of his prints, the rest remained unsigned. to be 100% sure you might want to do one of two things:

either send a digital photo by email

or

let me know the french text below the print (first 10 words are enough)

this way i can identify it and confirm whether it is s daumier or not.

 

best regards

 

dieter

 

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"Ami de personne" an imitation?

August 12, 2003

 

COMMENT:

 

I have been exploring your site and found my copy of "Ami de personne," (Nobody's friend) in your "Imitation" section. The following text is written on a lable pasted to the back of the lithograph.

 

I did not purchase this lithograph myself. It belonged to my father, who has since died.

 

AMIDEPERSONNE by Honore Daumier

The great Daumier was born in Marseilles in 1808. His famous caricatures, created over a period of 30 years, made him one of the most 0prodigious and creative artists to use the medium of original lithography.

The original lithograph "Ami de Personne," (Nobody's friend) is initialed in the stone. It is a superb example of genius that has made the w3orks of Daumier an asset to every major museum in the world.

 

AUTHENTICATION

Societe de Verification de la Nouvelle Gravure internationale of New York and Paris certifies and warrants that this is an original lithograph by Honore Daumier. The Societe de Verification de la Nouvelle Gravure has been created by the Collector's Guild Ltd. to set and uphold the highest standards for original lithographs and etchings.

 

THE COLLECTOR'S GUILD LTD. . 183 MADISON AVENUE . NEW YORK, N.Y. 10016

 

Thank you for your site. It has been very informative.

 

Robert Reid

 

 

August 12, 2003

 

REPLY:

 

Dear Robert,

You are quite correct to assume that your father bought a reprint of LD 3249 (see description under "Imitations" in this website). The print has very little value (max. $5) since it is not an original. The original print LD 3249 would be selling around $ 2'000 to 3'000 (if not more!).

Lilian

 

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